Showing posts with label christina whitehouse-suggs. Show all posts
Showing posts with label christina whitehouse-suggs. Show all posts

Thursday, June 4, 2009

Interesting Critique Of The Condition Of The Church Of America

Thanks to my friend and fellow Camel and CBFer, Christina Whitehouse-Suggs, here is part of an interesting posting from Jim Mark's Blog:

What is it we’re all searching for?
Posted by Jim Marks under Uncategorized
[2] Comments

It is at this point well documented that young adults abandon church in droves. Many, but not all, return when they have children. Both the growing hordes of “seeker Christians” (and seekers across religions) as well as the problem of “commodity Churches” have been discussed at length and well, by many people and I’m not going to attempt to improve on the ground already covered. But a dear friend just said something that caused a spark, so I’m writing it down here to share it.

I haven’t felt that way since I was in the church I grew up in, with all it’s flaws, at least it was a family… I think perhaps I loved it then because I didn’t know any better.


This is a shockingly succinct and beautiful summation of what church, and by extension religion, means for children. Church means family in the big, broad, old fashioned sense and family is something you love because you don’t know any better.

We all have families. Some of us may not have any living family left, but at some point we did. Some of us may not have any kind of relationship with our family, but at some point we did. And these things shape us in (nearly) indelible ways. But at some point all of us grow up and there is a kind of opening of the eyes. Even if our families are nearly perfect, at a certain age we discover the imperfections. It can, for some of us (not necessarily me), take a long time to get over the disillusionment that can come with these realizations; especially if the imperfections in your family are substantial.

Church really is just like this. So many of us have this gnawing sense that there has to be something better. Something more genuine. Something more engaged. Something more radical. Something more authentic. Something more intellectually honest. Something more. We (and now I do mean me) are still deeply disillusioned with the church/religion of our childhood. We have not yet recovered from the shock of the discovery that our “family” was disfunctional.

And this is why, really why, I think the commodity church reaction to the seeker Christian phenomena is so wrong headed. Not just because turning church into a consumer product is idolatrous and blasphemous (which it is). But much more so because many of us who might be seen as “seekers” aren’t really seeking at all. We know what we want. We want to go Home. We don’t want to return to the actual church in which we grew up. But we want to come Home, and return to that Wide Eyed Wonder of our childhood that allowed us to love a flawed family; because we didn’t know any better.

(Read More: Here).


Well said---Jim Mark, after such an aptly written articulation of what's wrong with the American church---I can add no further comment.

Monday, October 27, 2008

I've Tried To Keep Politics Off Of Here...

But this is too rich:

Dr. James Dobson, of Focus on the Family has published a letter trying to "scare" Christians into voting for John McCain. It is a fictional letter written by a Christian in 2012, four years after Obama is elected. Frankly, it is one of the most offensive things that I have ever read. I believe that it important for Christians not to be scared or bullied into voting one way or another. I'm tired of hearing people say that McCain is the way Christians need to vote, hearing about how pastors have said it is "unchristian" for people to vote for Obama, and seeing Church signs pushing their parishioners one way or another.

Read more from my friend Christina Whitehouse-Suggs' Livejournal.


Read Dobson's actual letter: Here.

Here is Christina's letter of response:

Dear Dr. Dobson,

I am so very tired of your ranting about politics and theology, claiming that all good Christians agree with your views. Your most recent fictional letter is yet another brick in the fundamentalist wall you continue to build around your narrow-minded kingdom. I'm sure others are saying they are appalled and outraged at your sensationalist tactics, but I'm far past that. For years you have not shown yourself to be concerned with anything that lines up with the message of the risen Christ.

If you truly consider yourself a follower of the Jesus portrayed in the Gospels, then you need to write a letter of apology to Senator Obama, as well as the entire Democratic party. Your work of fiction is the most vilifying piece of trash I've read since the Left Behind series. As Christians, we should be active in the political process but never stoop to such low-handed, strong-armed tactics.

Rev. Christina Whitehouse-Suggs


I must say I actually agree with Christina's letter moreso than Dr. Dobson's eventhough I may be a registered Republican (though I don't support either party). However, being thoroughly Baptist---I respect Dobson's right to believe as he chooses, but I believe Dobson went too far here. Especially, since coercive faith is against basic, fundamental and standard Baptist principles or as Roger Williams would say: “forc’t Worshipp stincks in Gods nostrils.”

Write your own response letter: Here.

Thursday, October 9, 2008

Southern Baptist Scholar Links Spouse Abuse to Wives' Refusal to Submit to Their Husbands

Bruce Ware, Professor of Theology at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, KY.

This news is old, but since I'm late on the Blogging scene, I thought I'd repost this article by way of my friend, Christina Whitehouse-Sugg's Facebook note even if it has been Blogged about several times I wish to offer my response:

You've got to be KIDDING me!!!Share
Tuesday, July 15, 2008 at 10:34am
I heard about this last week but simply couldn't believe it...I should've known better. For those of you who haven't kept up to date on Southern Baptist theology lately, here's one of their most prominent theologians arguing that husbands beat their wives because the women aren't submissive as the Bible says they should be.

I feel sick to my stomach.

The text is copied below, but here's the link:
http://www.ethicsdaily.com/article_detail.cfm?AID=10675
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Southern Baptist Scholar Links Spouse Abuse to Wives' Refusal to Submit to Their Husbands

Bob Allen
06-27-08

One reason that men abuse their wives is because women rebel against their husband's God-given authority, a Southern Baptist scholar said Sunday in a Texas church.

Bruce Ware, professor of Christian theology at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky., said women desire to have their own way instead of submitting to their husbands because of sin.

"And husbands on their parts, because they're sinners, now respond to that threat to their authority either by being abusive, which is of course one of the ways men can respond when their authority is challenged--or, more commonly, to become passive, acquiescent, and simply not asserting the leadership they ought to as men in their homes and in churches," Ware said from the pulpit of Denton Bible Church in Denton, Texas.

In North Texas for a series of sermons at the church on "Biblical Manhood & Womanhood," Ware described his "complementarian" view as what "Southern Seminary as a whole represents."

Commenting on selected passages from the first three chapters of Genesis, Ware said Eve's curse in the Garden of Eden meant "her desire will be to have her way" instead of her obeying her husband, "because she's a sinner."

What that means to the man, Ware said, is: "He will have to rule, and because he's a sinner, this can happen in one of two ways. It can happen either through ruling that is abusive and oppressive--and of course we all know the horrors of that and the ugliness of that--but here's the other way in which he can respond when his authority is threatened. He can acquiesce. He can become passive. He can give up any responsibility that he thought he had to the leader in the relationship and just say 'OK dear,' 'Whatever you say dear,' 'Fine dear' and become a passive husband, because of sin."

Ware said God created men and women equally in God's image but for different roles.

"He has primary responsibility for the work and the labor and the toil that will provide for the family, that will sustain their family," he said. "He's the one in charge of leadership in the family, and that will become difficult, because of sin."

Ware also touched on a verse from First Timothy saying that women "shall be saved in childbearing," by noting that the word translated as "saved" always refers to eternal salvation.

"It means that a woman will demonstrate that she is in fact a Christian, that she has submitted to God's ways by affirming and embracing her God-designed identity as--for the most part, generally this is true--as wife and mother, rather than chafing against it, rather than bucking against it, rather than wanting to be a man, wanting to be in a man's position, wanting to teach and exercise authority over men," Ware said. "Rather than wanting that, she accepts and embraces who she is as woman, because she knows God and she knows his ways are right and good, so she is marked as a Christian by her submission to God and in that her acceptance of God's design for her as a woman."

Ware cited gender roles as one example of churches compromising and reforming doctrines to accommodate to culture.

"It really has been happening for about the past 30 years, ever since the force of the feminist movement was felt in our churches," Ware said.

He said one place the "egalitarian" view--the notion that males and females were created equal not only in essence but also in function--crops up is in churches that allow women to be ordained and become pastors.

Ware said gender is not theologically the most important issue facing the church, but it is one where Christians are most likely to compromise, because of pressure from the culture.

"The calling to be biblically faithful will mean upholding some truths in our culture that they despise," he said. "How are we going to respond to that? We are faced with a huge question at that point. Will we fear men and compromise our faith to be men-pleasers, or will we fear God and be faithful to his word--whatever other people think or do?"

Ware offered 10 reasons "for affirming male headship in the created order." They include that man was created first and that woman was created "out of" Adam in order to be his "helper." Even though the woman sinned first, Ware said, God came to Adam and held him primarily responsible for failure to exercise his God-given authority.

Ware also said male/female relationships are modeled in the Trinity, where in the Godhead the Son "eternally submits" to the Father.

"If it's true that in the Trinity itself--in the eternal relationships of Father, Son and Spirit, there is authority and submission, and the Son eternally submits to the will of the Father--if that's true, then this follows: It is as Godlike to submit to rightful authority with joy and gladness as it is Godlike to exert wise and beneficial rightful authority."

Bob Allen is managing editor of EthicsDaily.com.

Copyright © 2002-2008 EthicsDaily.com


And here were my responses on her note:

Ben Currin wrote
at 1:21am on July 17th, 2008
Yeah, I just saw that on another messageboard---it seems consistent with the fundamentalist calvinazi thinking of today. Check out: http://adventuresinmercy.wordpress.com/2006/12/13/only-men-shine-with-the-direct-light-of-god-john-macarthur-on-women/, http://www.amazon.com/Twelve-Extraordinary-Women-Shaped-Bible/dp/0785262563/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b or even worse: http://www.amazon.com/Calling-Women-Macarthur-Bible-Studies/dp/0802453082/ref=sr_1_63?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216270239&sr=1-63, http://www.amazon.com/Exemplary-Husband-Biblical-Perspective/dp/1885904312/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216271870&sr=1-10 and http://www.amazon.com/Excellent-Wife-Biblical-Perspective/dp/1885904088/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b .

Ben Currin wrote
at 1:26am on July 17th, 2008
Review of The Excellent Wife: A Biblical Perspective:

77 of 142 people found the following review helpful:
Quotes Scripture Out of Context - Unbiblical, March 6, 2002
By Caralen Haymans - See all my reviews

I'm a 24 year old single Christian woman who has been a Christian for about 9 years. I recently started reading books on a woman's role in the Christian life. I was very emotional throughout the entire book because of the poor women who read this book deserve something better. Most women probably don't read the Bible while they are reading this book, so they probably don't realize that the author is ripping passages out of context. One example: she believes that it is easier for women to sin than men by quoting a passage about Eve being deceived and Adam not.
She instructs women to do everything their husbands say, even in questionable circumstances. The Bible says that we are not supposed to sin against our consciences and that other Christians are not supposed to ask us to do so.
The book puts husbands at such a lofty level - way above friendship and companionship. I am afraid that women will think that they will have to "worship" him and walk on eggshells around him.
The book says that women will have to have sex with their husbands whenever (and however) he wants to whether I want to or not, and to just "grin and bear it" or, as the author puts it, "suffer for righteousness sake".
Ben Currin wrote
at 1:27am on July 17th, 2008

This book, I sincerely believe, elevates husbands too high - and makes him an idol. This book does NOT leave the reader with the idea that marriage is a partnership. It left the impression that the worth of a woman is somewhere in-between a child and a slave. Wives must ask permission to do *anything* (including how to dress and wear their hair) and must do *everything* a husband says unless the Bible specifically says not to. Even in questionable situations - because "the husband always knows best".
If this is what marriage is supposed to be (a union between a master and a slave), I want no part in it. I want my marriage to be a union between friends (who aren't afraid to speak differing opinions) and equals before God.
Also, I don't like to be accused of being a "weak Christian" or in "rebellion" whenever I disagree with the author.

Ben Currin wrote
at 3:26am on July 19th, 2008
http://www.rickross.com/reference/fundamentalists/fund204.html

Ben Currin wrote
at 3:33am on July 19th, 2008
I read somewhere about some church that had to have male heads for female sunday school classes......crazy stuff.

Ben Currin wrote
at 3:57am on July 19th, 2008
http://209.85.215.104/search?q=cache:kHnz-7b95jgJ:www.ethicsdaily.com/doclib/upload/Queen-Jimmy_Carter_Was_Not_Alone.doc+Pastor+Mike+Queen,+First+Baptist+Church+Wilmington,+North+Carolina&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=30&gl=us


Also, check out this site:

Mary Hollings Whitehouse (Raleigh / Durham, NC) wrote
at 7:53am on July 17th, 2008
http://talibanrising.blogspot.com/2008/07/real-men-married-to-brotherhood.html

We might all end up on with our names on a list for reading this one, but it makes some good points.