Gregory Boyd Speaks Out Against John Piper's Arrogant Comments

Read this first: TheoPoetic Musings: Is John Piper The New "Jerry Falwell"?

Caught from Wretched Daily Update Archives August 25, 2009---
Local Atheist Disputes Piper’s Tornado Talk---in which Todd Friel mistakenly calls Dr. Boyd an atheist because Dr. Boyd unlike the calvinazis doesn't believe that God is the author of evil and all sin and then by the same reason punishes those for doing what God forced them to do in the first place:

Did God Send a Tornado to Warn The ELCA?
August 21st, 2009
On Wednesday, August 19, five small tornados formed in and around the Twin Cities. Included among the property damage was a broken church steeple. It just so happens that Central Lutheran Church was hosting the National Convention of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America (ELCA) and that one of the issues they were discussing was their stance on homosexuality. According to John Piper, this is no coincidence.

In a blog that unfortunately managed to make it on the local evening news John offered “an interpretation of this Providence.” He claimed “[t]he tornado in Minneapolis was a gentle but firm warning to the ELCA and all of us: Turn from the approval of sin.” You can read his blog here.

Now, I appreciate John as a brother in Christ and respect him as a pastor working for the Kingdom. And I have no quarrel with his view that homosexuality should not be affirmed as God’s ideal. But when he publicly claims to discern a divine warning behind the behavior of a particular tornado, I feel I need to offer a public response, if only to remind non-Christians that not all Christians think like this.

Here are six questions and objections I believe John would need to address if his speculation about why a particular tornado struck a church was to be considered remotely plausible.

1. Why does John discern a divine motive behind a damaged church steeple but not behind any other damage this tornado caused? For example, the roof of the Minneapolis Convention Center was damaged by this same tornado. Was God sending a warning by having his judging tornado damage this building? Or what about the damage cause by the other four tornadoes that struck the Twin Cities area around the same time? A middle school in North Branch was badly damaged, for example. Was this school more affirming toward gays than other schools in the area?

2. According to the National Weather Service, the United States is hit by about 1300 tornados each year, on average. Does John discern a pattern that these tornados tend to strike places that are more pro-gay, or even just generally more sinful, than others? I did a little research, and it turns out that the place where tornados tend to strike the most frequently and do the most damage is in the Bible Belt, with Oklahoma topping the list. And, interestingly enough, it turns out that those states that have the most progressive stances toward gays (e.g. Massachusetts, Vermont, New York) are among the states that typically experience the least tornado damage. Doesn’t this fact by itself completely undermine John’s speculation as to why a Minneapolis church steeple was damaged?

I have an alternative interpretation of tornado behavior to offer. They have nothing to do with how pro-gay or how sinful people are and everything to do with where people happen to live. Tornadoes strike Oklahoma frequently because it’s located in a place where hot and cold air currents tend to collide frequently at certain times of the year. Much less frequently, the same thing happens in the Twin Cities. Why can’t we just leave it at that?

3. One has to wonder why God would single out the ELCA’s discussion of homosexuality as worthy of a tornado hit while by-passing so many other serious issues. To give one example, there are over 400 distinct passages encompassing over 3,000 verses in the Bible that address issues related to poverty. Compare this with homosexuality, a topic that is explicitly mentioned a total of two times in the Old Testament and three times in the New. On top of this, the most frequently mentioned reason God judged cities and nations in the Old Testament was because they failed to care for the needy. And, finally, if there’s any sin American churches fail to seriously confront, it’s this one.

Read more: Here.

Is John Piper The New "Jerry Falwell"?

Compare these quotes from the late Jerry Falwell:

Fundies: Katrina is Gods punishment on abortionist!!!
by AHiddenSaint
Share this on Twitter - Fundies: Katrina is Gods punishment on abortionist!!! Tue Aug 30, 2005 at 09:08:36 PM PDT
So when do fundies go to far?
Salon":

Two days after 9/11, Jerry Falwell took to the airwaves to proclaim that God had allowed the United States to be attacked because "the pagans and the abortionists and the feminists and the gays and the lesbians" had tried to transform America into a secular society. Just this weekend, wingnuts from the Westboro Baptist Church turned out at the funerals of two fallen soldiers to say that God is punishing the United States in Iraq for its tolerance of homosexuality back home.

For another disgusting chapter in the conservative book of divine retribution, look at the reaction to the catastrophic attacks on the United States on September 11, 2001. Men of faith such as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson did not mourn the loss of life, grieve for their countrymen or even seek to rally the nation. Instead, appearing on the 700 Club, they sought to cast blame and attribute the terrorist attack to Providence angered by the sin and debauchery of conservative enemies:

FALWELL: "I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'"
ROBERTSON: "We have sinned against Almighty God, at the highest level of our government, we've stuck our finger in your eye. The Supreme Court has insulted you over and over again, Lord. They've taken your Bible away from the schools. They've forbidden little children to pray. They've taken the knowledge of God as best they can, and organizations have come into court to take the knowledge of God out of the public square of America."

Read more: Here.

To these proclamations by one of Calvinazism's leading darlings, John Piper:

The Tornado, the Lutherans, and Homosexuality
August 20, 2009 | By: John Piper | Category: Commentary

I saw the fast-moving, misshapen, unusually-wide funnel over downtown Minneapolis from Seven Corners. I said to Kevin Dau, “That looks serious.”
....
According to the ELCA’s printed convention schedule, at 2 PM on Wednesday, August 19, the 5th session of the convention was to begin. The main item of the session: “Consideration: Proposed Social Statement on Human Sexuality.” The issue is whether practicing homosexuality is a behavior that should disqualify a person from the pastoral ministry.

The eyewitness of the damage continues:

This curious tornado touches down just south of downtown and follows 35W straight towards the city center. It crosses I94. It is now downtown.

The time: 2PM.

The first buildings on the downtown side of I94 are the Minneapolis Convention Center and Central Lutheran. The tornado severely damages the convention center roof, shreds the tents, breaks off the steeple of Central Lutheran, splits what’s left of the steeple in two...and then lifts.

Let me venture an interpretation of this Providence with some biblical warrant.

1. The unrepentant practice of homosexual behavior (like other sins) will exclude a person from the kingdom of God.

The unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

2. The church has always embraced those who forsake sexual sin but who still struggle with homosexual desires, rejoicing with them that all our fallen, sinful, disordered lives (all of us, no exceptions) are forgiven if we turn to Christ in faith.

Such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:11)

3. Therefore, official church pronouncements that condone the very sins that keep people out of the kingdom of God, are evil. They dishonor God, contradict Scripture, and implicitly promote damnation where salvation is freely offered.

4. Jesus Christ controls the wind, including all tornados.

Who then is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him? (Mark 4:41)

5. When asked about a seemingly random calamity near Jerusalem where 18 people were killed, Jesus answered in general terms—an answer that would cover calamities in Minneapolis, Taiwan, or Baghdad. God’s message is repent, because none of us will otherwise escape God’s judgment.

Jesus: “Those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.” (Luke 13:4-5)

6. Conclusion: The tornado in Minneapolis was a gentle but firm warning to the ELCA and all of us: Turn from the approval of sin. Turn from the promotion of behaviors that lead to destruction. Reaffirm the great Lutheran heritage of allegiance to the truth and authority of Scripture. Turn back from distorting the grace of God into sensuality. Rejoice in the pardon of the cross of Christ and its power to transform left and right wing sinners.

Read full text here: Here.

Caught from Wretched Daily Updates August 20, 2009.

I especially like this sentence: "Turn back from distorting the grace of God into sensuality." What---you mean like fundamentalist Calvinists distorting God's grace into a license to excuse Calvin's theocratic tyranny and executions. I'd venture to say that the ELCA as well as the more progressive reformed, Calvinist, protestant, Baptist, Arminian, etc. bodies have already turned from distorting God's grace---that's why they are not fundamentalists of either the Reformed or non-reformed stripe.

See also He Lives: John Piper has a rare Strikeout in which a Piper fan even calls out Dr. Piper's comments.

The Cross And The Resurrection

James McGrath has this quote in his recent post from Marcus Borg via John Shuck:

Sunday, April 5, 2009
Quote of the Day (John Shuck)
"The way of cross is more than the way of resisting social, economic, and political injustices. But...the way of the cross is not less than that. "

-- John Shuck, "The Executed God: A Sermon"
Posted by James F. McGrath at 5:23 PM
Labels: cross, economic, injustice, John Dominic Crossan, John Shuck, Marcus Borg, Palm Sunday, political, resistance, sermon, social, theology

See: Exploring Our Matrix: Quote of the Day (John Shuck) and Shuck and Jive: The Executed God: A Sermon. Another good quote from John Shuck's post is:

To quote James Baldwin (The Fire Next Time, quoted in The Executed God, pg. 1):

If the concept of God has any validity or any use, it can only be to make us larger, freer and more loving. If God cannot do this, then it is time we got rid of him.

Anyways I believe Borg's quote ties the crucifixion and resurrection neatly together. Here is another quote from Borg on the Way Of The Cross from Jesus: Uncovering the Life, Teachings, and Relevance of a Religious Revolutionary:

"To take Jesus seriously is to follow him. To follow him is to participate in his passion. And his passion was God and the kingdom of God. The way of the cross leads to a life in God and participation in the passion of God known in Jesus."

It is easy to see that the crucifixion and the Resurrection event are two sides of the same coin or as The Seeking Disciple over at Arminian Today: The Resurrection Matters observes:

Each year around this time we in the Church of Jesus Christ turn our hearts toward the wonderful reality of the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. The resurrection of Jesus is vital to our faith and, as Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 15:14, our faith depends on the fact of the resurrection. If Christ is not risen from the dead and His body is still in the tomb in Israel then our faith is in vain. We are believing a lie.

But if Christ is truly risen from the dead then our faith is not just faith in the teachings of Jesus but our faith is based on an actual, historical event taking place in our time-space in order to bring the truth of God to us. If Jesus is risen from the dead, everything changes. Missions matters. Worship matters. Prayer matters. Faith matters. Apologetics matters. Discipleship matters. Teaching my children the truths of Scripture matters.

But only if Jesus is risen from the dead does this make a difference.

The early Church stood on the resurrection of Christ. They were not delusional in their understanding of the living Jesus. In fact, the Gospels paint a picture not of willing Jews wanting their Master to rise from the dead but scared Jewish men and women who honestly believed that Jesus was dead (Luke 24:20-21). Take Thomas in John 20:24. Thomas stands in line with many others who would come after him who doubted that Jesus was risen from the dead but Jesus appeared to him and convinced him that Jesus was not a ghost or a vision but was in fact the risen Messiah (John 20:26-29). Peter himself said that the gospel was not words or visions or prophecies but was in fact based on two things: their eye witness accounts and the Scriptures (2 Peter 1:16-21). Paul the Apostle, in 1 Corinthians 15:1-8, did two things at once. First most commentators believe that Paul was quoting an early Christian hymn or creed (vv.3-4) and then Paul gives eye witnesses to Jesus' resurrection (vv.4-8) that he says are alive (though some had died since Christ had risen) for the Corinthians to investigate. If Paul did not believe that Jesus was alive and that he had seen the risen Messiah, he would not have included living eye witnesses for the Corinthians to follow up with.
....
The resurrection matters. Does it matter in your life?

I agree as faith in the unseen Risen Lord is the hope which drives us even if we see but through a glass darkly. Also part of the change the resurrection bestows upon us is to practice the Way Of The Cross.

John Dominic Crossan On Bible Literalism

I thought I had posted this video before, but I couldn't find it---so thanks to Shuck and Jive: Crossan on Fundamentalism: "Rev's Rumbles" and The Rev's Rumbles: The Dangers of Fundamentalism -- John Dominic Crossan---I am finally posting it.

See also: Living the Questions, Peter Rollins: On the difference between literalism and fundamentalism and The Dangers of Fundamentalism -- John Dominic Crossan.